sec·u·lar·ism /sek-yuh-luh-riz-uhm]
–noun
1.secular spirit or tendency, esp. a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship.
2.the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element.
Three articles in the last 10 days have appeared in the Deseret News Mormon Times telling readers that secularism is the greatest threat to religion, Mormonism, Catholicism, and life on the planet as we know it.
From the Feb.14th article Secularism is growing obstacle for Mormon Church:
An attorney for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints predicts secularism will be one of the most significant obstacles facing the LDS Church over the coming decade.
William F. Atkin, associate general counsel for the LDS Church, made the prognostication Saturday during an address at the 2010 J. Reuben Clark Law Society Conference on the University of Utah campus.
"When governments become neutral towards religion, we see less and less protection of religion and religious activities," he said. "Secularism in the world is neutral at best towards religions and hostile at worst. We're seeing more and more that it is hostile, not just neutral, towards religion." ....
...."We think there's going to be a tightening now of what kind of entities get tax-exempt status," Atkin said. "Maybe churches are no longer going to be viewed as such a positive influence in society -- therefore (maybe) they're not going to be granted tax-exempt status."
Abroad, secularism is manifesting itself in a wave of anti-discrimination measures in Europe that could, for example, prevent the LDS Church from requiring its employees to adhere to a basic level of personal worthiness and moral conduct.
"We're seeing more and more, particularly in Western Europe, the countries who are very secular are pushing anti-discrimination and not permitting any religious exclusions," he said.
From the Feb. 12th article Gay-marriage battle endangering religious voices - Elder Wickman:
SALT LAKE CITY -- As the battle over same-sex marriage winds its way through the federal courts, the fundamental right to voice religious beliefs in political debates is seriously endangered, said Elder Lance B. Wickman.
Elder Wickman, an attorney for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and a member of the Quorum of the Seventy, made the remarks Thursday as part of the 2010 J. Reuben Clark Law Society Conference at the University of Utah.
"I believe that the greatest challenge faced by the church," Elder Wickman said, "is the challenge to religious liberty that is growing worldwide. ... A battle is looming over the effort to acquire civil social rights at the expense of civil religious rights. This battle, I believe, represents the acceleration of a disturbing slide downward in the law regarding the place of religion in the public square."
....
....Elder Wickman said Perry vs. Schwarzenegger portends to define not just marriage per se but the ground rules for all future political debate as well.
"Perry seeks a court declaration that, as a matter of law, religious views may not be used to justify the denial of a social civil right," he said. "Stated differently, they essentially claim that the voters, from whom all authority in a democracy flows, may not consider religious views and values when deciding these alleged social and cultural civil rights.
"These are serious allegations and represent an arrow directly at the heart not only of traditional marriage but at the place of religion and religious views in the political dialogue of this country."
From the Feb. 24th article MMO: Cardinal's speech set tone for LDS, Catholics:
Cardinal George's words built on that subtext.
"We can and should stand together as one in defense of religious liberty. In the coming years interreligious coalitions formed to defend the rights of conscience of individuals and religious institutions should become a vital bulwark against the tide of forces that work in our government and society that work to move religion to a purely private reality.
"At stake is whether the religious voice will be heard in the public square. Our collaborative efforts in this work may include common statements and court testimonies demonstrating principles that are constant with our religious beliefs."
He also said that Latter-day Saints cannot allow public expressions of faith to be relegated to private worship.
The three articles represent the opinions of two religions with abysmal civil rights track records. If left to their own devices not only would we ban gay marriage but we would prevent interracial marriage, keep abused spouses from divorcing their abusers and the progress made in the 60's and 70's civil rights movements would be undone. Unfortunately these regional oppressors are now calling themselves the victims of the neutrally intolerant secular society.
I believe in freedom of religion as much as I believe in freedom from religion. However, I also see religious beliefs similar to our private bedroom habits and believe they are best served when expressed with like minded willing participants not forced upon a nation. To a Catholic, the rituals are comforting; to someone on the outside they are perverse.
Religions, I think can and should serve their flocks. However when they reach out and use their wealth and influence to deny any portion of our society equal rights they should be pushed back and in the case of the LDS Church their tax exempt status should come under scrutiny.
William F. Atkin stated above "Maybe churches are no longer going to be viewed as such a positive influence in society -- therefore (maybe) they're not going to be granted tax-exempt status." If churches are not seen as such a positive influence in the world it is at their own hands. The self righteousness that comes from most pulpits including the LDS churches that puts religion before science, Quantitative measurable out comes behind superstition and hateful biases before compassionate policy should be shunned by our ever growing secular society.
It is religion that has spread propaganda such as the black man is descended from cane and is inferior, women are less than men because they caused Adam to fall, It is a sin to prevent pregnancy, and sex for whatever purpose is mired in sin. This propaganda has resulted in abuse, marginalization and horrible public policy whenever the religious entity has stuck its nose in the business of governing. So yes Mr. Atkin it is questionable as to whether churches are a positive influence in our society. I am with Christopher Hitchens in the belief that "Religion Poisons Everything."
I am in complete agreement that churches should not have tax exempt status.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi Curmudgeon,
ReplyDeleteAre you for taking a relgion's right to First Amendment rights? Reading your post about secularism becoming problematic for religion is true.
It has been for quite awhile actually? What about the Wrong Jeremiah Wright? He made political speeches from the pulpit! "God Damn America!" Does this sound familiar?
So do you take the point of view that Karl Marx does that religion is the opiate of the masses and dumbs them down?
I give you a point. Atheism is a religion. It is faith based to not believe in a god. What if you are wrong? Takes faith to believe in anything or the absence thereof.
So you would argue then that Elder Oaks should just shut up and sit in the back of the bus with regards to religious organizations taking speech?
Would you march me as a practicing Mormon off to a concentration camp to shut me up and take away my right to disagree with you on Prop 8 as an individual, citizen of America, and Mormon?
If they come for me, maybe they will come for you? Oh Dave you might say, that is absurd? Really?
The LDS Church in my opinion would rather give up tax exempt status as would the Catholics or Lutherans, rather than admit that homosexuality is not a sin.
So as a very independent thinking Mormon who is very well educated might I add. Be careful what you wish for. You just might not like it when it actually comes to pass.
Repost.
Hello David, The problem your church and all churches face is that as more of us take an atheist or secularist point of view the less control religion has. The more we look at your religion and it claims as absurd the less we are willing to allow you, your elders or your prophets push your agenda on public policy.
ReplyDeleteI have answered your ridiculous claim that atheism is faith based or a religion in an earlier post. Here is a snippet:
"Non belief is at the base line. All humans are born without belief. It therefore has no compulsion that is intrinsic. Belief is acquired and requires faith and has been the motivation for the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, the Jim Jones incident, the Salem Witch Trials and the list goes on and on. Religion creates a compulsion to action. Atheism has no such trait.
The basis for atheism is born in reason not fanaticism. While atheists like me who are out spoken are accused of having a fundamental belief the claim is a mischaracterization. We want proof. When there is insufficient evidence we treat absolute claims with a skeptical eye. When there is sufficient disproof we abandon the prior theory as false. The tendency to link atheism with communism and fascism because historically in this country we have treated both as a threat to democracy. However religious philosophy is closer to both ideals than atheism. I dare say that at the end of the day that religion is a bigger threat to democracy than atheism ever could be."
The difference between faith based and reason based belief systems is that when presented with evidence my thoughts on any subject are malleable. It does not appear yours are.
You call yourself a free thinking believer. I have read your blog and you appear to be a ditto head for the conservative movement. Your claim is not congruent with your actions. In the earlier post you commented on you were given the opportunity the give us evidence that your belief system was more than a belief and you failed to do so. The opportunity is still available.
I do agree with the Karl Marx quote. Religion is used to turn good people into haters. I don't want you relegated to concentration camps. I do not want you to shut up. I do believe that when Mr. Oaks opens his mouth there are consequences, and that should be a stripping of the tax exempt status, when he tries to affect public policy from the pulpit. It is a foregone conclusion that had the LDS Church not put their money and resources into the Prop 8 battle the measure would have likely failed. Why in a republic like ours is it acceptable for the majority to vote away the minority's rights? If your are really a student of history you know this is not what the founding fathers intended.
When you claim homosexuality is a sin how do you base that claim? What about the recent research that indicates gender identity is assigned at birth as a part of your genetic make up?
At the end of it all David, I wish for a society free of superstitious control that is governed by men of reason and science. For our country, over the last 60 years, religion has been the obstacle to greatness not the answer.
David:
ReplyDeleteIslam, Christianity, Communism, Fascism, they are all the same: any system that legitimates its values in a transcendent absolute, be it god, allah, the state, the objective laws of history, is a system that will end in butchery. Behind every claim to Absolute Authority is a sword itching to come out.
Here's a headline you will constantly read:
(Communists, Muslims, Christians, Nationalists) attack (Communists, Muslims, Christians, Nationalists), many dead. Reprisals expected.
Here's a headline you will never read:
Austin area freethinkers attack North Dallas atheists, 6 dead.
Think about it. Want world peace? Give up your Transcendent Authorities, and join the conversation between actual human beings.
Michael
Thanks for bringing attention to this latest salvo from Oaks & Co. I suspect Wickman, Atkin, and Dallin know darn well that they're full of it, but they've gotta keep folks like David busy in their bunkers clutching their pearls and so it goes.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Ted Olson and David Boies were recently on Bill Moyers' show. The transcript is here: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02262010/transcript1.html
If every Mormon in America would take 15 minutes and read what Olson and Boies have to say about marriage equality, well, it might save the rest of us a lot of time that's otherwise currently being wasted explaining and re-explaining basic concepts of our constitutional republic to folks who oughta know better.
And thanks for the comic. Hilarious!
One last thing: I had some friends at CPAC this year and apparently even conservatives have tired of those in their own ranks who're still beating the no-gay-marriage drum. Some polling was done, and only 1% of attendees thought the issue merited attention, i.e., even conservative activists think it's time to let it go.
No wonder Oaks & Co. are freaking out. They were expecting to win accolades after winning Prop 8, but instead they're being dismissed and dissed even harder than before. Mitt Romney had won the CPAC straw poll three years in a row, but not this year. Oops. Not only do the evangelicals still not like Mormons, but now they've got younger and more libertarian conservative voters looking askance at LDS shenanigans. Oops, indeed, and Oaks & Co. have only themselves to blame.
That said, there's a snowball's chance in hell that tax-exemption will ever be yanked from the LDS church. The Mormon Elders are waving that imaginary threat in order to boost the siege mentality of the rank-and-file and avert Mormon eyes away from the LDS leadership's glaring miscalculations and misrepresentations.
Well Curmudgeon all I can say is stay out of power and please don't vote. Stay on your blog and plot your Madeline Murray O'Hair life.
ReplyDeleteThe rest of us believers will be there to oppose your agenda every step of the way. No Atheist is an island to himself.
As for your claims, they lack sensible educated argument and thought. You say you have read my blog? Good. You say that I am in lock step with the rest of the right wingers? Good. I am where I need to be.
Because a free thinking Mormon will analyze the facts and determine that the atheist is a loon.
Respectfully.
David, you are a walking contradiction. You claim you are a free thinker however short of being able to string a noun and a verb together I am not seeing it. You claim to be well educated but you are incapable of defending your position with facts, evidence or reason.
ReplyDeleteYour last comment is the equivalent of saying, "Oh yeah...nenernenerner your an atheist...so there!" This is not the conversation a well educated free thinker engages in whether you are a Mormon or otherwise.
My claims are not the ones lacking in sensible educated argument. Come to the table with your evidence because your continued testimony bearing and blind repetition of the conservative talking points leave you not only sounding like the loon but a fanatic.
Respectfully!